Pt. 3 Brad Stoddard, Theron Shinew, Bob Batis, 30th Anniversary Edition

In September 1995, Michigan broke ground on Phase I of the MPSCS system. To help us reflect on this journey from those early days to where we are now - and where we are heading - we are thrilled to welcome two MPSCS Pioneers: Theron Shinew, who served MPSCS from 1981 to 2019. He started out as a steeplejack and rose through the ranks to become Deputy Director before retiring after an incredible 37-year career. And Bob Batis, Senior Director, Business Relationship Manager with Motorola Solutions. Bob was there from the beginning, when the State partnered with Motorola in the mid-1990s to help build the foundation of what MPSCS is today. https://cms.michigan.gov/mpscs/-/media/Project/Websites/MPSCS/Social_Media/Transcripts/Brad-Theron-Bob-Transcript-Pt-3.pdf

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:05

What are uh your most proud moments when you look back on your careers with the MPSCS?

SPEAKER_00 0:13

Well, uh we we've talked about the build-out of the system a little bit, but I guess I'd like to talk about the support of it a minute. Um and and you had a pretty big role in the enterprise asset management system that that we implemented. And uh it was called MP2, and MSP maintenance had this software on the shelf, and they had hadn't implemented it yet. They bought it last year, they hadn't implemented it. And and I knew that this system, the towers of the old MSP system was tracked in a notebook, and I'm going, well, this isn't gonna work. And of course, computers is getting a little more popular, and here's this enterprise, and I didn't even know it was enterprise at the time. I found out that can we use it, and maintenance can still use it, found out it was an enterprise solution, and you and I implemented that. And um, you know, I think I think to start with, there was approximately 80 pieces of equipment at each shelter that we put in there that we could track by serial number, model number, had parts in there so you could tell whether you had a part to fix it. You had preventive maintenance that kicked out work orders, repair work orders. Um, it it made a system the size of the MPSCS manageable from a software people perspective. And then with that said, after a couple of years, we started uh the FRC, and and and that helped the radio tech's um field resource center do work orders, close them out, check that when they were done testing or working on it, that there was no alarms and it was working properly, took a lot of heat off our network communications centers that were very technical dealing with itchy uh situations that they didn't they didn't need the staff that was just doing cookie cutter stuff interfering with our time. So I think implementing the the FRC and and then the asset management system was very pivotal in maintaining the system on as as it's growing. It wouldn't have been able to be done any other way in my in my book. I think the other thing earlier on was when we knew we were going to self-maintain, and and in the old days, MSP had the two tower guys, and they had a generator guy and they had a carpenter and and an HVAC guy. They were separate units. They're all maintenance, but they were separate, doing their own thing. And you know, with this many towers and and having to drive an hour to get to a tower, it made sense to have our our site maintenance be able to do the tower work, the generator work, the HVAC work, the maintenance of the shelter itself, the grounds. And um, so when we brought these people on, you know, when we were building out a phase, they were at training, they went to generator training, HVAC training, tower light, the the strobe lighting systems that were on the tower, you know, they they learned how to maintain all that equipment. So it wasn't that they were driving all the way out to a tower to fix a tower light and not being able to do the preventive maintenance on the HVAC or the generator. And we organized it so you know during the winter um we could do generator maintenance because we did make a decision to put our generators inside the shelter, and that way when it's snowing and everything, we're inside doing preventive maintenance. And in the spring, they have to worry about the generator, they did HVAC maintenance, and during the summer, they did tower maintenance, and and it just it really um was a success from uh a preparation and then the opportunity to to implement those ideas, and um and and I look back going. I'm gonna take a lot of credit, I won't take it all, but I'll take a lot of credit for for coming up creating this thought, this um way of maintaining the system. I look back, I'm pretty proud of that.

SPEAKER_01 4:44

Well, as you should be, because the many of those processes that you developed and multiple roles that you've had with the MPSCS are still utilized today. You know, and even around, you know, the technology adoption, you know, go back to you know the with MP2, you know, there was we spent a lot of time on that. I don't I don't think a lot of people really understood to go from zero to a system when initially we were told don't spend a lot of time on it, um, maybe see what you can get done in 30 days. And I think we spent uh an entire year on that to make sure it was right and got the information. But it was the second part of that where you you started looking at technology capabilities and utilized the team of the tower crew to create additional efficiency, just as you had just identified with you know when we do the generators, when we do the HVAC, and that. But it was the adoption of the HP Jornadas that were out there for a period of time. Yeah, the clamshells. We still have one of those in our museum.

SPEAKER_00 5:53

Um that makes me feel old.

SPEAKER_01 5:57

But it was what you saw as the capability is if you could have the team download their work orders and then take all of that to the site, because at the time, MP2 was a client server-based application, you couldn't take anything with you, yeah, and there was no cell access at these sites. So you saw this as a means of efficiency and said, Hey, the tower crew is going to start this first, and they loved it. And I know you had a lot of conversations with a company that owned MP2 at the time data stream around the capabilities, uh, they continue to evolve that. And then unfortunately, that the technology just disappeared. Uh, HP no longer made those devices, and we were back at zero. Uh, but it was everything that you focused on from an efficiency standpoint, you know, here in the team when those things went away. Uh, to say they were frustrated and upset was an understatement. They they wanted another solution. Unfortunately, another solution just didn't exist. But it's that same approach that you had so many years ago as what we're looking at, you know, in a future approach. How can we gain efficiency of you know, personnel being able to update, ticket information, get information, you know, the the process, even the the processes you developed on what to do in a generator preventative maintenance, and at what point in the year to do that? All the information that you documented that then connected to the work orders. So then the individual doing it, whether they were a senior individual or just new at the job, here was the way that you do it.

SPEAKER_00 7:34

Preventive maintenance steps laid out, history of well, that thermostat was replaced last year. And and I mean, just yeah, it is good information for the technician to be efficient and and successful.

SPEAKER_01 7:47

And and I remember one of those that you use that data to actually identify a manufacturer defect, and it was on um uh the block heaters. No, I think we had a bad batch that came in, and you guys identified when all these block heaters were purchased, and then contact manufacturer, and I believe it was outside of warranty, I think, when this happened, but contact the manufacturer and the manufacturer replaced all of those. But it was utilizing those tools, that approach that you put in place that not only identified a solution for us, but clearly identified something in the private sector as a need for that. I think the same was true with your involvement on uh the microwave equipment where there were some oscillator issues, and that same approach that was used in the blockator issues was used again with the oscillators to identify that it was a bad batch of oscillators that needed place. So, you know, again, as as you look back in your career, I have the opportunity to look back and recall many other pieces that you had a strong hand in at protecting public safety.

SPEAKER_00 8:59

Well, you you you gotta be looking at technology, you gotta be moving ahead. And I'll I'll shout out to Todd Velderman. You know, he he got into the hobby of 3D printing, you know, and then our microwave equipment had these filters on them, and to replace the filter is like $120, and you you had to buy the whole metal structure and everything. It's like that's ridiculous. Todd, can we print this? And he goes, Well, let me go home and print. He had a small printer and printed it in two pieces, and I'm going, This is gonna work. And he goes, Yeah, this is gonna work. So we bought a 3D printer and we printed enough of these plastic mounts to hold the filter material that you could unclip, change out the filter material, and clip it, saving the state a huge amount of money. Um, that that was that was pretty cool. Um I think before I retired, well, I know before I retired, we um needed to change out our tower lights. Didn't have to. They were they were, you know, they were uh a strobe system, but you had to replace the strobe bulb every three years, the white one, the red one every six years, because they they wore out, they got dim, they didn't meet aviation standards. Well, LED technology came along, and and these strobe companies, tower lighting companies were making strobes. And so I started investigating that and I'm going, wow, they use a lot less power, and they got like at least a 10-year lifespan. I'm going, why aren't we going to change out our lights and and save money? Because I mean the strobe tubes were expensive. Plus, you had a tower guy going up and doing it. And and then we thought about, well, let's let's look at putting you know IR into the strobe so when the aviation's wearing their nighttime goggles, they'll be able to see the strobe lights. I I didn't know this. With nighttime goggles, they couldn't see the strobe lights, they were invisible to them. So we talked to the manufacturers, and and I think we are one of the impetus of of getting IRs into LED strobe lights on towers now so the the pilots wearing these goggles can see. And uh, and that was a fight. I I I I was frustrated fighting with the budget office because it was a little bit of money, but it had a five-year payback. I mean, five years, then then we're golden. Nothing. And still had to wrestle with them why this was a good idea. But but finally convinced them, you know, did a couple spreadsheets, showed them, finally got it done.

SPEAKER_01 11:34

Yeah, you know, and and I know you're not giving yourself enough credit on that because you were the one that had the idea on the LED side lights, and they didn't exist. So you did your research, found a company that was willing to partner, I believe it was a Canadian company that was willing to partner in this, and they built Gen 1 of that, which was the LED, and then you reached out to MSP Aviation um and learned that piece on the IR piece. But it wasn't just a change on the MPSCS, but you changed the entire industry there because an idea you had created an opportunity, and you know that that was one that no doubt gets missed. We talk about you know the LED side lights and what it did, but you you had a vision for not only efficiency, but also cost savings that made sense, and it changed the entire industry. The other part to share, as you may not recall, is those um filter covers that you and and Todd worked on. We actually shared that template out to other states, and what our cost avoidance of that was annually was somewhere around $200,000. So that was something we didn't anticipate as a cost, and then subsequently when we did see what the cost was, we didn't add the kind of money, but we shared that template out to other states, so other states are taking advantage of it. So again, there's there's a number of things in your career that I've had the opportunity to make sure I don't forget and I can remind you of the things you've been able to do on the system. And and Bob will take a minute for you. You're still working with this, but if you looking back on it, what would you say some of the successful things in your career with the MPSCS?

SPEAKER_02 13:22

Well, first off, I'll do a little commentary on what Theron just said, and I'll just say it that data matters. Um, and that's what Theron put in place um ways to track information, which is data, which gives you information to make great decisions. Um, which, you know, I think we did a good job of that when we started this. Um yeah, it was all spreadsheets and everything else, but we were constantly evolving those spreadsheets to track all this data um from the time we walked on the site to the time we were done with the site. Um, and I think you know, it's kind of a profound question you you bring up there, but you know, the question isn't who's going to let me, but rather who's gonna stop me. I that was a mantra that I I I I have had for 31 years since I joined this system and listening to Stefel and figuring out how to do those things. You know, I'm going on 31 years at Motorola now, and you know, this is without a shadow of a doubt, um, my Magnum opus. Um it's been phenomenal. Um it's just uh when I step back and see what we took from this um and did all over the country from my perspective at Motorola, you know, what Theron was growing this system, doing these things and putting this system in a place to be very, very successful for years to come, setting the foundation for the 137 employees here at MPSCS and the continued growth. I was doing the same thing, but I was doing it at a different level of uh setting up all these other places with what we learned and what we did here. Um so I think you know, looking back at that and then having the opportunity to come back here and be part of the 30 years um has been full circle for me. Um it's been so satisfying um to see what we started and where we're where we're at, and we're gonna set this this uh this system up for the next 30 years. Um that's been so satisfying for me. And you know, I I I did a couple speeches for uh project management professional organizations, and there's not a lot of cook uh project managers or anybody else that actually starts a project and finishes and closes a project. It's very few. They just continue to move on and they leave the clothes out and stuff for others. But but I got to do that here on a smaller scale, and then on a grander scale, I get to come back and watch this thing for 30 years, the growth it's had, and then hopefully set it up for the next 30 years. So I think, you know, in a in a in a nutshell, that's what I'd say. Um, but I want to go back. Um you you talked about 9-11 um, you know, and what it meant. I think some other events probably helped shape it just as much for me. Um and most recently the ice storm. Um and when we had the ice storm um and we were able to meet and talk with some very high-level uh officials um and talk about what we actually did 30 years ago to set this up. You know, little did we know that radial ice would actually be radial ice. You know, we were trying to set the system up and the towers up to be strong to carry the winds and do all those things, but and it drove the foundations bigger, it drove the it drove the steel bigger, the 60k KSI versus 30 KSI steel. Um, you know, and then it came back to reality. Thirty years later, we had radial ice and all these towers, MPSCS towers up north, and they stood the test of time. They stood while towers around them were falling. It says a lot. You know, so that one most recently, and then the power outage we had, you know, everything's out around the country, but guess what's not out? The MPSCS system.

SPEAKER_00 17:10

Yeah, I think we had over a hundred generators running at one point.

unknown 17:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:15

During the blackout.

SPEAKER_00 17:16

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:16

It's just, it's, I don't know, it's it's it is its own. Um so I guess that's what I'd say about that.

SPEAKER_01 17:23

Well, good. You know, just on that, you know, and and I agree, Bob, the ice storm, the most recent, you know, piece that again was similar to 9-11, it put it in the eyes of the people. Um, that we really are the wizard of oz. You know, it's we're behind the scenes. And, you know, the I recall the that blackout, what it did is uh the Governor Granholm then used the blackout as a decision to say that the MPSCS needs to be in every utilities emergency operations room. So that became then the start of you know looking at our utility partners as users on the system. When an incident occurs, we have those communications. The ice storm was that example, what uh you you may not be aware of, but our current estimates on damage to the sites in the MPSCS as part of the ice storm is is roughly about $3.5 million, what we've estimated at this point, tracking the costs. And and that itself is lost a lot because there was a substantial damage to you know the private sector and public sector, public sector is uh damage to private sector and public sector uh you know components across those counties in many areas it was substantial impacts. Uh, utilities alone, um, I I know many of them were bringing in you know uh utility poles from all around the nation because they'd lost entire infrastructure. I think we heard from one utility is they were essentially completely rebuilding their entire infrastructure. Um, so you think of an impact of an ice storm, and even as I've I've heard from my peers from around the nation, we heard about it in Michigan, but outside of Michigan, there weren't that many people that were hearing about the ice storm and the catastrophic impact it's had on the community, and and no doubt still continues to have in the community. You know, we've we spent the entire time in the State Emergency Operations Center, you know, supporting that event. Uh, but it it gets back to what what you both identified through our conversation, not as direct but spot on, is around relationships. It was a relationship that we had in place with the National Guard, uh, with Department of Natural Resources, where uh as they were planning efforts to remove trees from roadways and power lines, that we became prioritized because they understood the impact is their inability to communicate would really hamper capabilities.

SPEAKER_02 20:05

And I don't think it could be said enough, Brad, that these towers stood. There literally was towers falling down. There is cell towers, uh uh TV towers falling down, and these are standing through it all. That was my goal. And that's but it you know, people need to know that. I mean, that that forethought back then came to fruition 30 years later. Yep.

SPEAKER_01 20:29

Yeah, it's and and again, it echoes what what we talked about earlier in the podcast, what you guys identified as standards and then constructed out of that has shown the test of time. You know, recently I shared is not only has this system continued success through multiple governors, but through multiple impacts from Mother Nature. Uh, we've had some towers that took direct direct impacts from a tornado, and it was still broadcasting. Um, I think it was uh F2, F3, don't recall exactly what it was, but it was an F something. Um but took a direct impact by the tornado and it was still broadcasting. You know, so that's you know, multifaceted from what you guys identified as standards early on, showed that it can withstand most of what Mother Nature is probably throwing at those sites. But you know, a couple other questions around that is is you know, you retired there and enjoying the life of retirement. Bob, I know you're not that far from that, uh probably a handful of years or so. Um, but what advice would you give to a young person look looking to follow in a similar path, maybe into public safety technology or communicates communications infrastructure?

SPEAKER_00 21:53

Go ahead, Bob.

SPEAKER_02 21:54

Well, uh you know, it's an interesting question. Um My advice, you know, like, you know, we've hired a couple young folks um on our team um that are part of this organization, our organization, but yet part of yours now. And and I think the greatest advice I've given them is to listen. Um listen, be curious, don't be afraid to ask the questions, and don't be afraid to think, you know, ask ask questions and think you're looking stupid. It's okay. We all start somewhere. Um, and you know, so somebody like a Spencer Carter or somebody like those, you know, they're learning, they're learning the system, they're learning, learning all this kind of stuff. And uh it's kind of fun to watch. And it's really it's really fun to mentor in a position, uh, you know, after 31 years to come back, like I said, and see where we're at, and now helping to mentor people um is great. Um it's phenomenal, actually. It kind of it kind of feels very satisfying. So I guess that's my advice is that like you know, you do have to understand, I mean, there's so much knowledge sitting in your office, um, sitting in ours, um, that that they can glean. And and it just that being curious part um and asking those questions. And um, I and I'm watching that growth out of out of him and and a few others that have recently joined the team. Um, so it's really fun to watch.

SPEAKER_00 23:20

Yeah, and and like I said before, success is where preparation and opportun opportunity meets. And um, so you know, you gotta you gotta be ready for that opportunity that's gonna show its face, gotta be prepared. And um I I think you'll be all right. But you just gotta do your gotta do a little work, gotta be ready for it.

SPEAKER_01 23:44

Yeah, well, maybe we can tell all the generation that you have to do a little bit of work. Um, but you're you're spot on, you know. I I I learned, you know, work ethic, you know, working with with both of you, not not just around the office, but also knowing what you guys do outside of the office. And you know, even though you're you're retired there and you're very you know involved in your community and the efforts that you take on because you're still passion that or you're still passionate, you still have passion for doing what's right. And Bob, you too are involved in your community, you know. From uh I know the conversations you and I would have about you know your kids through sports and your involvement in their athletic careers through through high school and you know how we shared some of those same moments, but it's the passion that you have, not only what you you put into the work environment, but also outside of work. It's it's you're just lighting a different candle as part of that. And you know, that would be the same thing I would say is anyone that's interested in this environment. For one, public safety communications is the most rewarding environment you can participate in. I think we would all agree on that. Is it's you know the direct impact of your investment in time and a solution or a technology is benefiting the citizens. It's the one thing we we could say over the past 30 years. We know this system, this system saved lives. It protected citizens, it protected public safety, it it's provided a solution that didn't exist, and it's provided a means that no one was aware of that they needed at the time until it started solving problems.

SPEAKER_02 25:32

You know, Brad, it's that mission that people do need to understand. That I'm glad you said that. Um that's that that that theme runs across every state that I've been in and every big communication system that I've been part of. That is the theme. And the passion you speak about is about caring. And that caring then comes here and then out comes passion. Um and that's what you really need to drive and get into this uh business. But that is the mo that is probably right. That's probably the most satisfying thing at the end of the day is that you're helping the 10 million citizens of this state. You're helping the thousands and thousands and thousands of first responders in this state. Um yeah, that's that's well said.

SPEAKER_01 26:19

I appreciate that. Um you know, and as we roll towards the close here, you know what's the best advice you've ever received?

SPEAKER_00 26:38

Listen more than you talk. Short and simple.

SPEAKER_02 26:44

Yeah, I short and simple too. My grandpa always told me, if you tell the truth, you never have to worry about what you say. And it's really that simple. And a lot of people don't like to hear the truth, but they need to hear the truth.

SPEAKER_01 26:59

Yeah, both both excellent. You know, I I know one that I I used to carry in my wallet forever until it's pretty much wore out, so I I saved it, so I would still have it a few years later, but I think I carried it in the first wallet I ever had at 14 wallet was bigger than my pocket. Um, but it was a little clipping that my mother cut out for me. I was a runner at the time, and it had this picture of this lone runner, and the road in front of him was nothing but hills. And it said, uh, the race is not always for the swift, but to those who keep on running.

SPEAKER_02 27:41

Yep. You know, we can put this on the podcast at some point, but this is probably one of the best things I ever got from Chuck Kuzno at towards the end of the project. And I keep this on my desk at home, and I look at it often, and it says, I do not choose to be common. And it goes on. But it's uh I think that can be said for this group here at this table. Um, things don't happen if you're just common. Things happen if you go make them happen, and that's not what's comet. Um, you have to cut through the the the BS and the red tape and go make things happen despite all the naysayers, despite all the negativity, um, and you make stuff happen. I mean, it's this is just an incredible uh system. This is an incredible opportunity. What was created here was incredible. Um, I just hope people can look back and understand the magnitude of what was created um and what you have to carry on. It's been a great legacy. Um, the system is a great legacy, and it's a testament to, you know, this group sitting here. So I know without the guy to my left here, we never would have got got it done. I know it takes a big team, but you know, somebody's got to go drive through the bullshit and make it happen. That's where it started.

SPEAKER_00 28:59

Well, well, well said, Bob. And and you know, I I didn't know where I was gonna end up in a career. I mean, just kind of fell into the MSP communications and never knew that we're gonna build the state-of-the-art system and so big and have it so successful and and be a part of it. And uh, and I say a part because we had a great team, and and I know we still have a good team. I I know when I was getting ready to retire, Kate come and said, Hey, can I can I just talk to you for like a half an hour, an hour every week, and just ask you questions? I said, Absolutely. I was so impressed with that woman for doing it. So um there's people that have passion. You gotta you gotta do what you love, and and um, and I I I want to take a minute and thank my wife for allowing me all the time that you and I were on the road. We're away from homes. But it was it was exciting. I I've had a hell of a career. And thank you.

SPEAKER_01 30:12

And thank you, you know, uh, both of you, and man. Must be some collar in the air. Fall allergies. But I'll follow suit on that there, and you know, I also thank you know your wife Kim and you know your daughters Terry and Jenny. Um have because you know you are on the road. I know it, because I saw you casually sometimes in the office. So I knew you weren't around. Uh, but knowing that you know she was supporting your professional growth and what you were having as an impact in the system definitely, you know, accolades to uh your your spouse Kim and what she's uh thank you, no doubt enjoying in retirement with you because I know uh in retirement it's no different than what you were doing when you were working. There's no moss growing on your feet whatsoever.

SPEAKER_00 31:09

No, no. We uh we took a couple of motorcycle trips, and Kim says, I think it's time to get a convertible. So sold the bike, got a convertible, and you know, it's a 21. We got over 40,000 miles on already. So we're uh we're seeing the sights, we're seeing a lot of the nation, a lot of fun.

SPEAKER_01 31:25

Well, good. Well, speaking of sights, it is beautiful. I'm so thankful that you allowed us to be up here at your home today. You know, the backdrop that we have here, the eagles, the ospreys that Bob pointed out earlier in the podcast, it's the view that you and Kim get every day. And no doubt it is based on your rewards of a very successful and rewarding career. And fortunately, you know, the gentleman to your right um isn't that far from you. So I know you guys still spend plenty of time together, um, you know, still having discussions around standards and construction and development. So it has never changed or wavered.

SPEAKER_00 32:09

So we we were on opposite teams for a while, and uh we we realized we we're on the same team. And uh after Bob built here, he invited Kim and I out for dinner and a boat ride, and we said this is where we want to be. So we bought the lot, and uh seven years later, girls were off in college, and we built 20 years ago and never looked back. So yeah.

SPEAKER_02 32:35

Yeah, I was only supposed to be here for seven years, um, and then I was gonna move on. Um, you know, well said, and thanking your wife, I'd be remiss if I didn't think Sally either, as much as we were gone at at one point in time with three three young kids uh running around, and you know, we had to put priorities in place, and having a career and getting this thing done was a big priority. Um, so she put up with a lot as well. Um, but yeah, I mean it's uh it's it's okay to look back now. And so I'll tell you, I was supposed to go back home to Joliet in seven years, and I'm still here.

SPEAKER_00 33:16

Well, I just want to say thank you for the invite. It it was um it was very cool to reminisce about all this. It was very exciting at the time, and and I still look back just going, was it a dream? It was it was a great, great career. Great career.

SPEAKER_01 33:35

You know, it's and and I'm I'm honored to be here with both of you. You know, I'm I know you personally, I know you professionally, and I know the impact that Nellie have you had in both aspects of many people's lives. And you know, the um the the same um for Theron's wife, I'd say the same for years with Sally. Um, you know, it the amount of work that both you gentlemen have put in throughout the entire life of the system, um, there's an investment outside of that that's keeping the lights on when you're trying to turn the lights on for public safety down the road. So, you know, we've all learned this uh in our career is sometimes it is the investment of time uh away from family, knowing that the rewards will soon come. You both have amazing rewards that you get to enjoy every day. Before any closing, anything else you gentlemen would like to add uh for our podcast today, our listeners.

SPEAKER_00 34:42

No, uh I I'm good, but I I'll be right here if you ever have any follow-up questions. Deal.

SPEAKER_02 34:50

I would just say hey to all the MPSCS employees out there. Um you know, we've had each other's back this whole time. We've got your back. Um enjoy this system, take care of the system, make it the legacy it needs to be as uh as you move it forward. Um the next 30 years should be awesome um and continue making it great.

SPEAKER_01 35:13

Thank you, Bob, and again, thank you, Theron, not only for uh the time today, but also allowing us to set up in this beautiful location. You know, thank you both for taking the time out of your day and spending not only with me as we're recording this, but knowing that this is gonna live on for you know quite some period of time. Today we're talking about the 30 years, but the intent that I I really hoped out of this that at some point in the 40 years, someone's gonna look back on this and understand the history and the people of the system. And and this has been a goal of mine, you know, for some time. You know, we we attempted uh this for the 25th, and then unfortunately COVID hit. So it it paused all that. So be able to bring this back for the 30th is it's very important not only to me, but all the staff that came before us on the system, as well as those that are still today and those that will join tomorrow uh to be able to understand why things were done, how they were developed, and the people that made those decisions. So uh I'm I'm glad we finally were able to get some time scheduled for this. I know I've invited both of you to our 30th celebration. Look forward to having you both there. Um, you'll you'll both have the opportunity to share with um the the individuals that we also invited there any thoughts you have. So give you some time to think about what you may say. It could be as simple as hey, work hard and enjoy, but it could also be something as elephant as what you shared with us today and today's podcast. So uh I want to say thank you for uh not only our listeners for listening through all this, but again with Bob and Theron and their families and supporting this time today. That wraps up today's special 30th anniversary edition of Tune In with the MPSCS. We hope you enjoy this look back at history and the evolution of one of the world's most advanced public safety communication systems that's running here in Michigan. One of the most advanced, critical infrastructure emergency communication systems that's probably known across our nation, maybe even around the globe. We hope you will all enjoy the show and we'll see you back real soon. Thank you and have a great day.